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Thread: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

  1. #1
    Don Deacon Guest

    Default Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as a
    PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the power
    switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some sort
    as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't find
    any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm leaving
    it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to have
    stopped.

    Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot it
    down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my gut
    telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.

    Thanks,
    D





  2. #2
    Curious Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    Are you sure the computer is shutting down and not just the graphics card?
    Learn to restart your computer using only key strokes starting with the
    windows button then tab tab and the letter U key so that the next time it
    appears to shut down you can try restarting it.
    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as a
    > PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    > just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    > the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    > power
    > switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    > problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    > sort
    > as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    > latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't find
    > any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    > couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm leaving
    > it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    > have
    > stopped.
    >
    > Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot it
    > down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    > gut
    > telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > D
    >
    >



  3. #3
    Timothy Davis [MSFT] Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    If you have to unplug the machine, it is a hardware problem.

    Make sure your components are seated correctly, and that your power supply
    is powerful enough for all of your devices.

    I would troubleshoot in the following order:

    1: Re-seat all components in the system (cables, memory, processor)
    2: Check the mfgr website for updated BIOS
    3: Replace the power supply for the computer

    Most people don't realize that the power supply is one of the most common
    devices on the machine to fail - and they often don't completely fail, but
    simply become flakey.


    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as a
    > PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    > just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    > the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    > power
    > switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    > problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    > sort
    > as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    > latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't find
    > any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    > couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm leaving
    > it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    > have
    > stopped.
    >
    > Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot it
    > down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    > gut
    > telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > D
    >
    >



  4. #4
    Steve Thackery Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    This is a hardware problem. Probably either the cpu overheating, or more
    likely the power supply shutting down due to over-current or
    over-temperature.

    SteveT



  5. #5
    Richard Urban Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it to
    cool off for a while.

    The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short in
    the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had failed on
    the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.

    --

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience


    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as a
    > PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    > just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    > the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    > power
    > switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    > problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    > sort
    > as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    > latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't find
    > any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    > couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm leaving
    > it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    > have
    > stopped.
    >
    > Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot it
    > down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    > gut
    > telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > D
    >
    >



  6. #6
    Don Deacon Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    I will open it up tonight and have a look but there is definitely something
    about being in Safe Mode that is keeping it from happening. It shut off
    about 10 times this morning in Normal mode so I put in in Safe Mode in the
    late morning. It has been running stable since then without a burp in safe
    mode.

    I suppose something in Normal mode could be triggering it to overheat and
    trip the PS.

    Don

    "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:eOtlfmvMJHA.4380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    > overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it
    > to cool off for a while.
    >
    > The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short in
    > the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had failed
    > on the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    > "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    > news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >>I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as
    >>a
    >> PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    >> just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    >> the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    >> power
    >> switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    >> problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    >> sort
    >> as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    >> latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't
    >> find
    >> any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    >> couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm
    >> leaving
    >> it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    >> have
    >> stopped.
    >>
    >> Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot
    >> it
    >> down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    >> gut
    >> telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> D
    >>
    >>

    >


  7. #7
    Curious Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    Very likely it is your graphics card which is drawing more power in normal
    mode since it is running at a higher resolution than it does in safe mode.
    This is why I suggested that you try to restart using the keyboard since
    possibly the graphics card was disabled due to it's drawing too much power
    in normal mode.
    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news29F8F8D-0734-4A04-B493-9DB55E5559F4@microsoft.com...
    >I will open it up tonight and have a look but there is definitely something
    >about being in Safe Mode that is keeping it from happening. It shut off
    >about 10 times this morning in Normal mode so I put in in Safe Mode in the
    >late morning. It has been running stable since then without a burp in safe
    >mode.
    >
    > I suppose something in Normal mode could be triggering it to overheat and
    > trip the PS.
    >
    > Don
    >
    > "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:eOtlfmvMJHA.4380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >> Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    >> overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it
    >> to cool off for a while.
    >>
    >> The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short
    >> in the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had
    >> failed on the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Richard Urban
    >> Microsoft MVP
    >> Windows Desktop Experience
    >>
    >>
    >> "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    >> news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >>>I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as
    >>>a
    >>> PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    >>> just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just
    >>> power
    >>> the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    >>> power
    >>> switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    >>> problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    >>> sort
    >>> as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all
    >>> the
    >>> latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't
    >>> find
    >>> any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    >>> couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm
    >>> leaving
    >>> it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    >>> have
    >>> stopped.
    >>>
    >>> Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot
    >>> it
    >>> down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    >>> gut
    >>> telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> D
    >>>
    >>>

    >>



  8. #8
    Richard Urban Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it to
    cool off for a while.

    The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short in
    the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had failed on
    the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.

    --

    Richard Urban
    Microsoft MVP
    Windows Desktop Experience


    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as a
    > PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    > just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    > the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    > power
    > switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    > problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    > sort
    > as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    > latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't find
    > any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    > couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm leaving
    > it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    > have
    > stopped.
    >
    > Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot it
    > down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    > gut
    > telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > D
    >
    >



  9. #9
    Don Deacon Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    I will open it up tonight and have a look but there is definitely something
    about being in Safe Mode that is keeping it from happening. It shut off
    about 10 times this morning in Normal mode so I put in in Safe Mode in the
    late morning. It has been running stable since then without a burp in safe
    mode.

    I suppose something in Normal mode could be triggering it to overheat and
    trip the PS.

    Don

    "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:eOtlfmvMJHA.4380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    > overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it
    > to cool off for a while.
    >
    > The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short in
    > the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had failed
    > on the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Richard Urban
    > Microsoft MVP
    > Windows Desktop Experience
    >
    >
    > "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    > news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >>I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as
    >>a
    >> PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    >> just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just power
    >> the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    >> power
    >> switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    >> problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    >> sort
    >> as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all the
    >> latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't
    >> find
    >> any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    >> couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm
    >> leaving
    >> it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    >> have
    >> stopped.
    >>
    >> Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot
    >> it
    >> down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    >> gut
    >> telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> D
    >>
    >>

    >


  10. #10
    Curious Guest

    Default Re: Complete Crash without Blue Screen

    Very likely it is your graphics card which is drawing more power in normal
    mode since it is running at a higher resolution than it does in safe mode.
    This is why I suggested that you try to restart using the keyboard since
    possibly the graphics card was disabled due to it's drawing too much power
    in normal mode.
    "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    news29F8F8D-0734-4A04-B493-9DB55E5559F4@microsoft.com...
    >I will open it up tonight and have a look but there is definitely something
    >about being in Safe Mode that is keeping it from happening. It shut off
    >about 10 times this morning in Normal mode so I put in in Safe Mode in the
    >late morning. It has been running stable since then without a burp in safe
    >mode.
    >
    > I suppose something in Normal mode could be triggering it to overheat and
    > trip the PS.
    >
    > Don
    >
    > "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:eOtlfmvMJHA.4380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >> Many of the better power supplies have a thermal overload. To reset the
    >> overload you have to unplug the power supply from the mains and allow it
    >> to cool off for a while.
    >>
    >> The big problem is WHY is it tripping out. It is usually due to a short
    >> in the computer somewhere. On my computer it was a capacitor that had
    >> failed on the M/B that was tripping the thermal overload in the P/S.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Richard Urban
    >> Microsoft MVP
    >> Windows Desktop Experience
    >>
    >>
    >> "Don Deacon" <ddeacon@xaera.com> wrote in message
    >> news:B1ED44D1-A910-4B6D-8344-8A0496EF8AA2@microsoft.com...
    >>>I upgraded to Vista about a month ago and since then my computer (used as
    >>>a
    >>> PVR) just keeps crashing. It is not even crashing with a blue screen, it
    >>> just completely shuts off. After one of these crashes, I can't just
    >>> power
    >>> the PC back on either, I have to disconnect the power supply, flip the
    >>> power
    >>> switch, reconnect the power supply then boot. I'd swear it was just a HW
    >>> problem myself but something is telling me it is a driver issue of some
    >>> sort
    >>> as I can boot into Safe Mode and it never seems to happen (I have all
    >>> the
    >>> latest drivers as well). I've looked through event viewer and I can't
    >>> find
    >>> any error relating to what causes the crash either. It used to do it a
    >>> couple of times a week but is doing it fairly regularly now so I'm
    >>> leaving
    >>> it in safe mode to see if it happens there, but again, now it seems to
    >>> have
    >>> stopped.
    >>>
    >>> Any idea on where to look to troubleshoot? If I could just troubleshoot
    >>> it
    >>> down to a piece of HW I could replace it but the only thing I have is my
    >>> gut
    >>> telling me it is the video drivers. Would like some better evidence.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> D
    >>>
    >>>

    >>



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