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Thread: Vista Experience

  1. #1
    Nigel Bufton Guest

    Default Vista Experience

    As many readers may not have "upgraded" to Vista yet, I thought that I'd log
    some perspectives.

    FWIW, I have used scores of operating systems over the past forty years -
    including Digital's VMS from which WNT (the forerunner of XP and presumably
    Vista) was "lifted". For those who are not aware, V+1, M+1, S+1 = WNT =
    Windows NT. (Microsoft's well-documented equivalent of the HAL/IBM pun.)

    Observations:
    1. Vista is very pretty. Far prettier than XP. If you like pretty, Vista
    is for you.
    2. Windows Mail is truly awful. After importing my ONE mail when I upgraded,
    WM decided to drop all the "Account" data fields in the import. It was
    quite happy to include this column for mail I received subsequently, but as
    I have 8 mail accounts and imported over 2,000 important emails, the loss of
    into which accounts each of the previous emails came was a surprise for me.
    Of course I am now stuck with it. I also used the "Outlook Bar" extensively.
    Not permitted in WM though - Microsoft removed this capability.
    3. Windows Mail "Junk E-mail" filtering has the intelligence of a
    three-year-old. (No offence intended to three-year-olds.) I am still
    telling it what is junk and what is not junk after seven weeks of training.
    Even Norton's Anti-Spam took only a few days of training to get 95%
    correctly sorted. If Microsoft wants to serve its customers, they should
    provide Norton (and others) whatever is needed so that these other companies
    can apply their far superior methods for those of us who need intelligent
    spam filtering in Windows Mail.
    4. Vista freezes and gets itself confused much more than XP. It's like
    going back to Windows Me. It is years since I have had to restart Windows
    so often.
    5. User Account Control is a real pain. For a single-user home system, its
    paternalism is the most intrusive idiocy that I have ever encountered. Its
    like walking around one's home with a little voice saying "do you really
    mean to do this?" every time you do anything. It's enough to make one
    consider leaving home.
    6. So many features have been removed. I used to press the "sleep" button
    on my keyboard to turn the system off. Vista won't let me assign power-down
    to a sleep button. I guess Microsoft think I might get confused?
    7. And so on... Removed features, inferior performance, little progress towards a good operating system. (It is truly amazing how many third-party utilities one has to purchase in order to get a decent "operating system" environment.)

    Microsoft, forget Windows 7 for now. My mother taught me to finish what was
    on my plate before I could even think about afters. You certainly have a
    lot of work to do to finish what is on your Vista plate. Get to work,
    forget prettiness for a year or so, and get Vista SP2, SP3, etc. released
    asap.

    Nigel









  2. #2
    HappyAndyK's Avatar
    HappyAndyK is offline Site Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    7,540

    Default

    Try Windows Live Mail instead. You will like it.
    Is yours an OEM install? If so remove trialware and crapware. It solves most issues.
    Windows 7 is being built on Vista; so in a sense it is expected to address most Vista disapointments.

  3. #3
    Not Even Me Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    "HappyAndyK" <HappyAndyK.3h5pqo@winvistaclub.com> wrote in message
    news:HappyAndyK.3h5pqo@winvistaclub.com...
    >
    > Try Windows Live Mail instead. You will like it.
    > Is yours an OEM install? If so remove trialware and crapware. It solves
    > most issues.
    > Windows 7 is being built on Vista; so in a sense it is expected to address
    > most Vista disapointments.
    > --
    > HappyAndyK


    Of course, and MS will want the price of an upgrade for what will
    essentially be a major service pack.
    I haven't been happy with Vista since the first BETA build; and I was fairly
    vocal saying so.
    But MS doesn't care what customers actualy want; they want to put out what
    their marketing people tell them people want.
    They may be several thousand miles off the mark, but that is what they
    believe is desired.
    I just wonder where they get the people they use in these focus groups?
    Maybe they use former members of OJ's original jury?



  4. #4
    Gordon Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    "Nigel Bufton" <nigel@bufton.org> wrote in message
    news:eTGQcdDLJHA.1500@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > As many readers may not have "upgraded" to Vista yet, I thought that I'd
    > log
    > some perspectives.


    > FWIW, I have used scores of operating systems over the past forty years -
    > including Digital's VMS from which WNT (the forerunner of XP and
    > presumably
    > Vista) was "lifted". For those who are not aware, V+1, M+1, S+1 = WNT =
    > Windows NT. (Microsoft's well-documented equivalent of the HAL/IBM pun.)


    But obviously new to Usenet. Do NOT post to Usenet in HTML. Usenet is a
    TEXT-based system.

    > Observations:
    > 1. Vista is very pretty. Far prettier than XP. If you like pretty, Vista
    > is for you.


    Just set it to Windows Classic.......

    > 2. Windows Mail is truly awful. After importing my ONE mail when I
    > upgraded,
    > WM decided to drop all the "Account" data fields in the import. It was
    > quite happy to include this column for mail I received subsequently, but
    > as
    > I have 8 mail accounts and imported over 2,000 important emails, the loss
    > of
    > into which accounts each of the previous emails came was a surprise for
    > me.
    > Of course I am now stuck with it. I also used the "Outlook Bar"
    > extensively.
    > Not permitted in WM though - Microsoft removed this capability.


    "Outlook bar"? What's that? Never heard of it. And of COURSE you're not
    "stuck" with it. There are planty of free replacements out there.
    Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail to name two.

    > 3. Windows Mail "Junk E-mail" filtering has the intelligence of a
    > three-year-old. (No offence intended to three-year-olds.) I am still
    > telling it what is junk and what is not junk after seven weeks of
    > training.
    > Even Norton's Anti-Spam took only a few days of training to get 95%
    > correctly sorted. If Microsoft wants to serve its customers, they should
    > provide Norton (and others) whatever is needed so that these other
    > companies
    > can apply their far superior methods for those of us who need intelligent
    > spam filtering in Windows Mail.


    If you get that much junk email yhen you are doing something very wrong - I
    assume the email address you used to post this mis your real address? Then
    get ready for LOADS more spam.

    > 4. Vista freezes and gets itself confused much more than XP. It's like
    > going back to Windows Me. It is years since I have had to restart Windows
    > so often.


    Then presumably your machine is not up to the job. My machine hasn't
    "frozen" once in the six months I've had it...

    > 5. User Account Control is a real pain. For a single-user home system,
    > its
    > paternalism is the most intrusive idiocy that I have ever encountered.
    > Its
    > like walking around one's home with a little voice saying "do you really
    > mean to do this?" every time you do anything. It's enough to make one
    > consider leaving home.


    <sigh> all the REALLY secure Operating Systems have some sort of UAC. Unix,
    Linux etc etc. The fact that you have a "single-user home system" is totally
    beside the point. The point, and if your OS experience is as good as you say
    it is it doesn't show, is to prevent unauthorised access to system areas by
    things like malware and viruses.
    Besides unless you are CONSTANTLY tinkering with your OS rather than doing
    work with it, the UAC only happens rarely. Mine comes up only on my weekly
    Adaware scan. that's all.

    > 6. So many features have been removed. I used to press the "sleep" button
    > on my keyboard to turn the system off. Vista won't let me assign
    > power-down
    > to a sleep button. I guess Microsoft think I might get confused?


    How about Start-Sleep with your mouse? (It takes all of errr 0.5 seconds
    longer than pressing a key....)


    > 7. And so on... Removed features, inferior performance, little progress
    > towards a good operating system. (It is truly amazing how many
    > third-party utilities one has to purchase in order to > get a decent
    > "operating system" environment.)


    It's truly amazing that I have purchased NO third-party utilities to get a
    good stable working environment.





  5. #5
    Peter Foldes Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    You feel better now Nigel.

    Just my 2 cents. Everything that you describe as not working or missing or whatever on your Vista install is most likely user induced since those do not happen at this end

    --
    Peter

    Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
    Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

    "Nigel Bufton" <nigel@bufton.org> wrote in message news:eTGQcdDLJHA.1500@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    As many readers may not have "upgraded" to Vista yet, I thought that I'd log
    some perspectives.

    FWIW, I have used scores of operating systems over the past forty years -
    including Digital's VMS from which WNT (the forerunner of XP and presumably
    Vista) was "lifted". For those who are not aware, V+1, M+1, S+1 = WNT =
    Windows NT. (Microsoft's well-documented equivalent of the HAL/IBM pun.)

    Observations:
    1. Vista is very pretty. Far prettier than XP. If you like pretty, Vista
    is for you.
    2. Windows Mail is truly awful. After importing my ONE mail when I upgraded,
    WM decided to drop all the "Account" data fields in the import. It was
    quite happy to include this column for mail I received subsequently, but as
    I have 8 mail accounts and imported over 2,000 important emails, the loss of
    into which accounts each of the previous emails came was a surprise for me.
    Of course I am now stuck with it. I also used the "Outlook Bar" extensively.
    Not permitted in WM though - Microsoft removed this capability.
    3. Windows Mail "Junk E-mail" filtering has the intelligence of a
    three-year-old. (No offence intended to three-year-olds.) I am still
    telling it what is junk and what is not junk after seven weeks of training.
    Even Norton's Anti-Spam took only a few days of training to get 95%
    correctly sorted. If Microsoft wants to serve its customers, they should
    provide Norton (and others) whatever is needed so that these other companies
    can apply their far superior methods for those of us who need intelligent
    spam filtering in Windows Mail.
    4. Vista freezes and gets itself confused much more than XP. It's like
    going back to Windows Me. It is years since I have had to restart Windows
    so often.
    5. User Account Control is a real pain. For a single-user home system, its
    paternalism is the most intrusive idiocy that I have ever encountered. Its
    like walking around one's home with a little voice saying "do you really
    mean to do this?" every time you do anything. It's enough to make one
    consider leaving home.
    6. So many features have been removed. I used to press the "sleep" button
    on my keyboard to turn the system off. Vista won't let me assign power-down
    to a sleep button. I guess Microsoft think I might get confused?
    7. And so on... Removed features, inferior performance, little progress towards a good operating system. (It is truly amazing how many third-party utilities one has to purchase in order to get a decent "operating system" environment.)

    Microsoft, forget Windows 7 for now. My mother taught me to finish what was
    on my plate before I could even think about afters. You certainly have a
    lot of work to do to finish what is on your Vista plate. Get to work,
    forget prettiness for a year or so, and get Vista SP2, SP3, etc. released
    asap.

    Nigel







  6. #6
    Little Charlie Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote in message news:eEgY2FFLJHA.5692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

    > "Nigel Bufton" <nigel@bufton.org> wrote in message
    > news:eTGQcdDLJHA.1500@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...

    >> As many readers may not have "upgraded" to Vista yet, I thought that I'd
    >> log
    >> some perspectives.

    >

    >> FWIW, I have used scores of operating systems over the past forty years -
    >> including Digital's VMS from which WNT (the forerunner of XP and
    >> presumably
    >> Vista) was "lifted". For those who are not aware, V+1, M+1, S+1 = WNT =
    >> Windows NT. (Microsoft's well-documented equivalent of the HAL/IBM pun.)

    >
    > But obviously new to Usenet. Do NOT post to Usenet in HTML. Usenet is a
    > TEXT-based system.
    >

    >> Observations:
    >> 1. Vista is very pretty. Far prettier than XP. If you like pretty, Vista
    >> is for you.

    >
    > Just set it to Windows Classic.......
    >

    >> 2. Windows Mail is truly awful. After importing my ONE mail when I
    >> upgraded,
    >> WM decided to drop all the "Account" data fields in the import. It was
    >> quite happy to include this column for mail I received subsequently, but
    >> as
    >> I have 8 mail accounts and imported over 2,000 important emails, the loss
    >> of
    >> into which accounts each of the previous emails came was a surprise for
    >> me.
    >> Of course I am now stuck with it. I also used the "Outlook Bar"
    >> extensively.
    >> Not permitted in WM though - Microsoft removed this capability.

    >
    > "Outlook bar"? What's that? Never heard of it. And of COURSE you're not
    > "stuck" with it. There are planty of free replacements out there.
    > Thunderbird and Windows Live Mail to name two.
    >

    >> 3. Windows Mail "Junk E-mail" filtering has the intelligence of a
    >> three-year-old. (No offence intended to three-year-olds.) I am still
    >> telling it what is junk and what is not junk after seven weeks of
    >> training.
    >> Even Norton's Anti-Spam took only a few days of training to get 95%
    >> correctly sorted. If Microsoft wants to serve its customers, they should
    >> provide Norton (and others) whatever is needed so that these other
    >> companies
    >> can apply their far superior methods for those of us who need intelligent
    >> spam filtering in Windows Mail.

    >
    > If you get that much junk email yhen you are doing something very wrong - I
    > assume the email address you used to post this mis your real address? Then
    > get ready for LOADS more spam.
    >

    >> 4. Vista freezes and gets itself confused much more than XP. It's like
    >> going back to Windows Me. It is years since I have had to restart Windows
    >> so often.

    >
    > Then presumably your machine is not up to the job. My machine hasn't
    > "frozen" once in the six months I've had it...
    >

    >> 5. User Account Control is a real pain. For a single-user home system,
    >> its
    >> paternalism is the most intrusive idiocy that I have ever encountered.
    >> Its
    >> like walking around one's home with a little voice saying "do you really
    >> mean to do this?" every time you do anything. It's enough to make one
    >> consider leaving home.

    >
    > <sigh> all the REALLY secure Operating Systems have some sort of UAC. Unix,
    > Linux etc etc. The fact that you have a "single-user home system" is totally
    > beside the point. The point, and if your OS experience is as good as you say
    > it is it doesn't show, is to prevent unauthorised access to system areas by
    > things like malware and viruses.
    > Besides unless you are CONSTANTLY tinkering with your OS rather than doing
    > work with it, the UAC only happens rarely. Mine comes up only on my weekly
    > Adaware scan. that's all.
    >

    >> 6. So many features have been removed. I used to press the "sleep" button
    >> on my keyboard to turn the system off. Vista won't let me assign
    >> power-down
    >> to a sleep button. I guess Microsoft think I might get confused?

    >
    > How about Start-Sleep with your mouse? (It takes all of errr 0.5 seconds
    > longer than pressing a key....)
    >
    >

    >> 7. And so on... Removed features, inferior performance, little progress
    >> towards a good operating system. (It is truly amazing how many
    >> third-party utilities one has to purchase in order to > get a decent
    >> "operating system" environment.)

    >
    > It's truly amazing that I have purchased NO third-party utilities to get a
    > good stable working environment.
    >
    >
    >
    >


    I too have experience with many operating systems going back to the Commodore 64, Commodore Amiga 500 and 2000 and started with WFWG 3.1 on my first Windows pc.

    I have had a very positive experience with Vista now on 4 different PC's of my own.

    --

    Little Charlie
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=861653
    "Destroy your EGO and your ART will flourish"

  7. #7
    franks Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 11:01:16 +0100, "Gordon"
    <gordonbparker@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:

    >But obviously new to Usenet. Do NOT post to Usenet in HTML. Usenet is a
    >TEXT-based system.



    If you change "Usenet" to "MS Newsgroups" the red got-a-clue flag
    wouldn't be wildly waving.

    Saying that this is Usenet equates saying this is a web forum. I can
    access Usenet and get here. I can access any of many web forums
    (including MS's) and get here.

    Really, too bad MS let that happen, but it's their show.



    Vista? No problems here.

  8. #8
    oscar Guest

    Default RE: Vista Experience

    The last resort of the inept and confused is to blame the Operating System.
    --
    oscar

    ....Right click is your very good friend...


    "Nigel Bufton" wrote:

    > As many readers may not have "upgraded" to Vista yet, I thought that I'd log
    > some perspectives.
    >
    > FWIW, I have used scores of operating systems over the past forty years -
    > including Digital's VMS from which WNT (the forerunner of XP and presumably
    > Vista) was "lifted". For those who are not aware, V+1, M+1, S+1 = WNT =
    > Windows NT. (Microsoft's well-documented equivalent of the HAL/IBM pun.)
    >
    > Observations:
    > 1. Vista is very pretty. Far prettier than XP. If you like pretty, Vista
    > is for you.
    > 2. Windows Mail is truly awful. After importing my ONE mail when I upgraded,
    > WM decided to drop all the "Account" data fields in the import. It was
    > quite happy to include this column for mail I received subsequently, but as
    > I have 8 mail accounts and imported over 2,000 important emails, the loss of
    > into which accounts each of the previous emails came was a surprise for me.
    > Of course I am now stuck with it. I also used the "Outlook Bar" extensively.
    > Not permitted in WM though - Microsoft removed this capability.
    > 3. Windows Mail "Junk E-mail" filtering has the intelligence of a
    > three-year-old. (No offence intended to three-year-olds.) I am still
    > telling it what is junk and what is not junk after seven weeks of training.
    > Even Norton's Anti-Spam took only a few days of training to get 95%
    > correctly sorted. If Microsoft wants to serve its customers, they should
    > provide Norton (and others) whatever is needed so that these other companies
    > can apply their far superior methods for those of us who need intelligent
    > spam filtering in Windows Mail.
    > 4. Vista freezes and gets itself confused much more than XP. It's like
    > going back to Windows Me. It is years since I have had to restart Windows
    > so often.
    > 5. User Account Control is a real pain. For a single-user home system, its
    > paternalism is the most intrusive idiocy that I have ever encountered. Its
    > like walking around one's home with a little voice saying "do you really
    > mean to do this?" every time you do anything. It's enough to make one
    > consider leaving home.
    > 6. So many features have been removed. I used to press the "sleep" button
    > on my keyboard to turn the system off. Vista won't let me assign power-down
    > to a sleep button. I guess Microsoft think I might get confused?
    > 7. And so on... Removed features, inferior performance, little progress towards a good operating system. (It is truly amazing how many third-party utilities one has to purchase in order to get a decent "operating system" environment.)
    >
    > Microsoft, forget Windows 7 for now. My mother taught me to finish what was
    > on my plate before I could even think about afters. You certainly have a
    > lot of work to do to finish what is on your Vista plate. Get to work,
    > forget prettiness for a year or so, and get Vista SP2, SP3, etc. released
    > asap.
    >
    > Nigel
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >


  9. #9
    Ringmaster Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 13:13:01 -0700, oscar
    <oscar@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

    >The last resort of the inept and confused is to blame the Operating System.


    Which brings us to this:

    Scott Charney, who just happens to be head of Microsoft's Trustworthy
    Computing division, admitted this week that Windows Vista's User
    Account Control (UAC) prompts are not intuitive and confuse users.

    Over the past year I'm written extensively on UAC. Each and every
    point I made over and over in this newsgroup is now confirmed to be
    true and none other than by a high ranking Microsoft official that now
    confirms everything I've said from the beginning.

    Read it, then see it, hear it from the horse's mouth, on first link
    below. Wait for ad to finish first to get to content.

    http://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa...9289212,00.htm

    http://vista.blorge.com/2008/04/11/m...o-annoy-users/

    http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/tech-news/?p=2164


  10. #10
    +Bob+ Guest

    Default Re: Vista Experience

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 12:47:13 +0530, HappyAndyK
    <HappyAndyK.3h5pqo@winvistaclub.com> wrote:

    >Try Windows Live Mail instead. You will like it.


    No he won't. He has 8 mail accounts. With Windows Live Mail, he gets 8
    Inbox's, 8 Sent Folders, 8 Draft Folders. Windows Live Mail is
    marginal for anyone with more than one email account, it ----s for
    anyone with "many" email accounts.

    >Is yours an OEM install? If so remove trialware and crapware. It solves
    >most issues.


    So a new install is supposed to fix the major bugs in Vista
    Networking? It's supposed to fix that fact that Vista is a bloated pig
    and runs twice as slow as XP?

    >Windows 7 is being built on Vista; so in a sense it is expected to
    >address most Vista disapointments.


    Or, more likely, it will have all the same disappointments - once more
    rearranged, dumbed down some more, and even more bugs as MS once again
    rewrites the OS instead of fixing the old one.




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